Comments on: What is Darwin? http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/ Mac Apps, Reviews, Previews, Interviews, and Giveaways. Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:57:29 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: 什么是Darwin ? | 维以不永伤 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-152187 什么是Darwin ? | 维以不永伤 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 06:33:58 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-152187 [...] MacApper:What is Darwin? [...] [...] MacApper:What is Darwin? [...]

]]> By: Counsel http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-71762 Counsel Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:53:26 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-71762 I think when he said that the GPL is "aggressive" towards commercial use, he actually means that commercial use does not benefit from the complete release and sharing of code. Sure, there are companies that do this - IBM, Linux, SNORT, etc., but these companies not only provide the software but really focus on providing a service surrounding the software. Installing SNORT after downloading the software did not use to be a single-click install. These companies could be said to really be offering a service surrounding a freely-available software stack rather than really offering the software - since that software can be used by anyone else... In other words, if you did not offer better service regarding the software than other firms, you would not have a business... We should try to not be so critical over the terms used and try to understand what is being said. I am trying to clarify what I see as a misunderstanding rather than be critical, so please don't take it that way... Individuals will always have moments when they are wrong. Simply point out the facts and stop harping on the "wrong" assumption... Being critical really doesn't help anyone.. I think when he said that the GPL is “aggressive” towards commercial use, he actually means that commercial use does not benefit from the complete release and sharing of code.

Sure, there are companies that do this – IBM, Linux, SNORT, etc., but these companies not only provide the software but really focus on providing a service surrounding the software.

Installing SNORT after downloading the software did not use to be a single-click install. These companies could be said to really be offering a service surrounding a freely-available software stack rather than really offering the software – since that software can be used by anyone else… In other words, if you did not offer better service regarding the software than other firms, you would not have a business…

We should try to not be so critical over the terms used and try to understand what is being said. I am trying to clarify what I see as a misunderstanding rather than be critical, so please don’t take it that way…

Individuals will always have moments when they are wrong. Simply point out the facts and stop harping on the “wrong” assumption… Being critical really doesn’t help anyone..

]]> By: memson http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-71680 memson Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:37:32 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-71680 @The Steven - I had Rhapsody on my PC - you can't get much more OS X than that without running OS X itself! @The Steven – I had Rhapsody on my PC – you can’t get much more OS X than that without running OS X itself!

]]> By: The Steven http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-71664 The Steven Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:35:41 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-71664 I look back and laugh, the NeXT OS v3.3 was available for both "black boxes" (NeXT cubes and slabs) and "beige boxes" (x86 PC's)... Several parts from NeXT were ported directly to OS X. I had a copy of 3.3 on a pc years ago. I showed this old machine to a Mac Fanboy friend of mine, his response was "How did you fit the Mac motherboard in that pc case?" So, I can say I had parts of OS X running in a pc before the "Hackentosh" projects did. I look back and laugh, the NeXT OS v3.3 was available for both “black boxes” (NeXT cubes and slabs) and “beige boxes” (x86 PC’s)… Several parts from NeXT were ported directly to OS X. I had a copy of 3.3 on a pc years ago. I showed this old machine to a Mac Fanboy friend of mine, his response was “How did you fit the Mac motherboard in that pc case?”

So, I can say I had parts of OS X running in a pc before the “Hackentosh” projects did.

]]> By: Johan Krüger-Haglert http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70945 Johan Krüger-Haglert Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:10:45 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70945 I have no idea why this made OSNews since it's neither deep (the average OSnews reader probably got more of a clue than the writer) and also incorrect. It's ok if the writer want to try to learn these things but uhm, it's not very good as a source for information about it. I have no idea why this made OSNews since it’s neither deep (the average OSnews reader probably got more of a clue than the writer) and also incorrect. It’s ok if the writer want to try to learn these things but uhm, it’s not very good as a source for information about it.

]]> By: memson http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70798 memson Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:24:05 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70798 No, no, no! NEXTSTEP was an OS. OPENSTEP was an OS. OpenStep was a specification implemented by a few vendors, based on the OpenStep spec, in turn based on the NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP API. @Daniel C, you are an idiot ;-) Did you even read the first like of the Wikipedia article you linked to for NEXTSTEP? "NEXTSTEP was the original object-oriented, multitasking operating system that NeXT Computer developed to run on its proprietary NeXT computers" Ouch! When NEXT and Sun released the OpenStep spec, FSF or similar started GnuStep, based on the spec. If NEXTSTEP is not an OS now, you'd better let all the NEXT hardware nuts know that they aren't really running an OS ;-) No, no, no! NEXTSTEP was an OS. OPENSTEP was an OS. OpenStep was a specification implemented by a few vendors, based on the OpenStep spec, in turn based on the NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP API.

@Daniel C, you are an idiot ;-) Did you even read the first like of the Wikipedia article you linked to for NEXTSTEP?

“NEXTSTEP was the original object-oriented, multitasking operating system that NeXT Computer developed to run on its proprietary NeXT computers”

Ouch!

When NEXT and Sun released the OpenStep spec, FSF or similar started GnuStep, based on the spec.

If NEXTSTEP is not an OS now, you’d better let all the NEXT hardware nuts know that they aren’t really running an OS ;-)

]]> By: leeg http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70756 leeg Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:12:31 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70756 @Michael Engel: nail has been hit on the head, there. The kernel organisation where the BSD system call layer lives alongside the mach code is called POE mode, and isn't just used by Darwin - Tru64 (OSF/1) is Mach-based too and uses the same monolithic approach. BTW, I can strongly recommend http://osxbook.com and the book, Mac OS X Internals by Amit Singh :-). @Michael Engel: nail has been hit on the head, there. The kernel organisation where the BSD system call layer lives alongside the mach code is called POE mode, and isn’t just used by Darwin – Tru64 (OSF/1) is Mach-based too and uses the same monolithic approach.

BTW, I can strongly recommend http://osxbook.com and the book, Mac OS X Internals by Amit Singh :-) .

]]> By: lesmana http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70754 lesmana Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:10:42 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70754 the GPL is NOT (and never was) aggressive towards commercial use. the GPL allows you to sell GPL licensed software, but if you do, you also have to provide the source code. see here for more http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLCommercially the GPL is NOT (and never was) aggressive towards commercial use.

the GPL allows you to sell GPL licensed software, but if you do, you also have to provide the source code.

see here for more
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLCommercially

]]> By: Greg Bocic http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70679 Greg Bocic Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:08:50 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70679 Thanks for your corrections. I'd just like to add: - I never said NeXtstep was an OS. - There are many definitions of Darwin on the web, I didn't make it up :) You're right about the kernel, though. That's why I asked people to help with their comments! Thanks for your corrections. I’d just like to add:
- I never said NeXtstep was an OS.
- There are many definitions of Darwin on the web, I didn’t make it up :)

You’re right about the kernel, though. That’s why I asked people to help with their comments!

]]> By: Joël Kuiper http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70480 Joël Kuiper Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:52:35 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70480 See: http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch_xnu.html for more details. This article is incorrect. See: http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch_xnu.html for more details. This article is incorrect.

]]> By: Joël Kuiper http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70479 Joël Kuiper Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:50:27 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70479 Actually the operating system is called Darwin upon which higher-level OSX functionality is build. The kernel is called XNU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU) which is the combination of the Mach hybrid-kernel structure and the parts borrowed from FreeBSD to make it a POSIX compliant kernel. Actually the operating system is called Darwin upon which higher-level OSX functionality is build.
The kernel is called XNU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU) which is the combination of the Mach hybrid-kernel structure and the parts borrowed from FreeBSD to make it a POSIX compliant kernel.

]]> By: Joi http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70416 Joi Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:03:08 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70416 Neat. Neat.

]]> By: Daniel Cedilotte http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70415 Daniel Cedilotte Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:03:08 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70415 Another thing to point out is that NeXTStep is a framework, not an OS. OpenStep is a version of NeXTStep made by NeXT with Sun Microsystems. And in turn, GNUStep is an open source version of OpenStep. NeXTStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTStep) OpenStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep) GNUStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUStep) Another thing to point out is that NeXTStep is a framework, not an OS. OpenStep is a version of NeXTStep made by NeXT with Sun Microsystems. And in turn, GNUStep is an open source version of OpenStep.

NeXTStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTStep)
OpenStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep)
GNUStep on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUStep)

]]> By: Leonard http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70297 Leonard Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:13:45 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70297 I did know that by reading John Siracusa's reviews of Mac OS X since the public beta. Still very interesting material. I did know that by reading John Siracusa’s reviews of Mac OS X since the public beta.

Still very interesting material.

]]> By: Michael Engel http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70279 Michael Engel Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:59:16 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70279 Some small corrections - BSD distributions (4.x BSD or the Net/Open/FreeBSD derivatives) never used Mach as a kernel; instead they used and still use their own, monolithic kernel(s). The hybrid kernel of OS X is in fact based on Mach 3 with BSD kernel parts added in the same address space (to speed up system calls). NeXTs kernel (as well as Rhapsody and OS X Server 1.x), however, was based on Mach 2 (with some improvements from 2.5), which is more of a traditional monolithic kernel. It helps when you've got one of the principial Mach developers (Dr. Avie Tevanian) working for your company, it seems ;-). Apple's first efforts in using Mach 3 were, however, based on Linux. In fact, there was an officially supported, Mach 3 microkernel (i.e. non-hybrid) based Linux version called "MkLinux" available for early PowerPC based Macs. MkLinux was developed in cooperation with the OSF, but never saw widespread use. The portability of NeXTstep and OpenStep were, btw, very important in making Apple's switch to x86 instead of PowerPC rather easy, since both NeXT OSes already supported four different system platforms ("black" 68k-based NeXT hardware, i486 PCs, Sparc and HP-PA, though HP-PA support was dropped from OpenStep 4.2). -- Michael Some small corrections – BSD distributions (4.x BSD or the Net/Open/FreeBSD derivatives) never used Mach as a kernel; instead they used and still use their own, monolithic kernel(s).

The hybrid kernel of OS X is in fact based on Mach 3 with BSD kernel parts added in the same address space (to speed up system calls). NeXTs kernel (as well as Rhapsody and OS X Server 1.x), however, was based on Mach 2 (with some improvements from 2.5), which is more of a traditional monolithic kernel. It helps when you’ve got one of the principial Mach developers (Dr. Avie Tevanian) working for your company, it seems ;-) .

Apple’s first efforts in using Mach 3 were, however, based on Linux. In fact, there was an officially supported, Mach 3 microkernel (i.e. non-hybrid) based Linux version called “MkLinux” available for early PowerPC based Macs. MkLinux was developed in cooperation with the OSF, but never saw widespread use.

The portability of NeXTstep and OpenStep were, btw, very important in making Apple’s switch to x86 instead of PowerPC rather easy, since both NeXT OSes already supported four different system platforms (”black” 68k-based NeXT hardware, i486 PCs, Sparc and HP-PA, though HP-PA support was dropped from OpenStep 4.2).

– Michael

]]> By: Lucky http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/comment-page-1/#comment-70156 Lucky Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:04:46 +0000 http://macapper.com/2008/04/08/what-is-darwin/#comment-70156 I just wanted to be notified of other replies :P Great post! There is some stuff I didn't know about :) I just wanted to be notified of other replies :P

Great post! There is some stuff I didn’t know about :)

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