Jim Whitelaw vs. Apple Canada
Jim Whitelaw is a man with a problem. Jim bought his 10 year old daughter an iPod Touch so that she could play some games without having to break the bank on her allowance. He set her up with an iTunes account, gave her an iTunes gift card, and told her to go at it. Only, she couldn’t. Apple Canada doesn’t allow iTunes gift cards to be used for App Store purchases.
Whitelaw contacted Apple customer support via email and was given the following reason;
“…you will not be able to purchase software, games, or applications with store credit or an iTunes Gift Card in Canada. Customers residing in Canada may only purchase software, games and applications using a credit card. This is due to Canadian Commerce Laws that the iTunes Store must strictly enforce.”
This story seemed all too familiar to me — not because I’d heard it before but because I’d lived it myself. Earlier this year I had gone through the exact same situation. What’s worse, the gift cards in Canada give no such warning. At the time this occurred I attempted to look up the law in question, and failing to do so assumed the fault lie with my research abilities and not with Apple’s argument. Jim Whitelaw, however, wasn’t content to walk away without a better answer.
When Apple customer care was unable to cite the law in question or put him in touch with someone that could, Whitelaw contacted his MPP (think Congress representative, but Canadian) for answers. His MPP, too, could find no such law on the books, and like Whitelaw, refused to leave well enough alone. The matter was escalated to the highest authority on the issue in Canada, the Hon. Tony Clement, Minister of Industry. Here is the minister’s official response;
“(I) am unaware of which Canadian laws the company representatives are said to be enforcing. I am not aware of any laws that prevent a company from accepting its own gift cards when it sells certain products. That said, merchants are generally free to set their own policies respecting the payment methods they accept.”
So there you have it. If the Canadian Minister of Industry can’t name the law that prevents Apple from accepting their own gift cards for certain purchases in Canada, my money says that no such law exists. Furthermore, with no such warning printed on iTunes gift cards in Canada one could argue that this is nothing more than a dubious business practice intended to force people to spend additional funds in the iTunes Store than originally intended by referencing an imaginary law.
Mr. Whitelaw has sent an email to Steve Jobs, and is awaiting a response. To follow his story as it develops, visit jimwhitelaw.com.
>>>and failing to do so assumed the fault lie with my research abilities and not with Apple's argument.
Jim: past tense of ‘lie’ is ‘lay’. “… assumed the fauld lay with my research abilities.
Good story. I plan to follow it.
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aaaand I’m guity of a typo!
Interesting… I didn’t know that this was the case, until I tried to spend a christmas gift card last year on a few apps and my credit card was promptly charged. I hope that Apple Canada/ Itunes Canada changes that to allow for gift card app purchases.
Tony Clement is currently an Minster of Parliament (MP) at the federal level and he was formerly a Minister of Provincial Parliament (MPP)
Twice
Someone could say what is the email address of Jobs or Apple Customer care support?
We have a big issue with it representetive in our country … and only Apple can do something with it .
http://www.oydigital.com (the bottom part is on English)
if you were to talk to apple canada here is what they would say
“Due to tax laws and commerce restrictions for software in Canada, customers residing in Canada may only purchase games and applications using a credit card.”
Jim, thanks for the writeup. I do want to see an answer to this issue.
kuzya, the official iTunes feedback page is here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html
A bit of googling lead me to believe that sjobs@apple com is a valid Steve Jobs email address. All I know for sure is that an email to that address did not bounce.
Oh I was wondering why you weren’t able. Didn’t think it was because of gov laws.
here … ill make it easy for you and past it here
NOW KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU AGREED TO THESE TERMS BEFORE YOU CREATED AN ITUNES ACCOUNT AND BEFORE YOU PURCHASED A CERTIFICATE OR AN ALLOWANCE OR REDEEMED A GIFT CARD
Gift Certificates may be redeemed for iTunes Store transactions only and are non-refundable for cash. They cannot be used for purchases on the Apple Online Store or used in Apple Retail Stores. Purchases for Gift Certificates may be purchased only in whole Canadian dollar increments or designated amounts. Gift Certificates may not be used to purchase other Gift Certificates, iTunes Cards or Monthly Allowances. Gift Certificates cannot be used to purchase software, games, or apps.
Monthly Allowances are for transactions on the iTunes Store only. The Allowance Account may not be used for gifts, or purchases on the Apple Online Store or in Apple Retail Stores. Monthly Allowances may not be used for purchases on the Apple Online Store or in Apple Retail Stores. Monthly Allowances are non-refundable. Monthly Allowances may not be used to purchase Gift Certificates, iTunes Cards, Apps, or other Monthly Allowances. Monthly allowances may not be used to purchase software, games, or apps.
iTunes Cards are for transactions on the iTunes Store only. iTunes Cards may not be used for gifts, or purchases on the Apple Online Store or in Apple Retail Stores. iTunes Cards are non-refundable. iTunes Cards may not be used to purchase Gift Certificates, Monthly Allowances, Apps, or other iTunes Cards. iTunes Cards may not be used to purchase software, games, or apps.
ITS THERE CLEAR AS DAY, SO DONT ACT SO SURPRISED WHEN YOU CANT DO IT. IT NEVER FAILS TO SURPRISE ME THAT PEOPLE DO NOT READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS THEY ARE AGREEING TO.
WAKE UP PEOPLE
Another update from Apple. As of today, Apple says that the issue is not due to legal restrictions, just policy and that the previous claim regarding Canadian commerce law was an “unauthorized statement”.
http://www.jimwhitelaw.com/2009/10/itunes-credit-in-canada-apple-changes.html
It all boils down to the fact that Apple does not want to have to pay the Canadian taxes. That is it, plain and simple! I know this from my sister working for Apple (through a temporary service), and it is taught in training classes to state that it is “due to international tax laws”, which it really is. If it is phrased that way, it is not a lie. Apple does not want to pay the taxes for the apps, and the don’t want to alienate their customer base by being honest with them.
Let me give you a little more information: many, many Apple agents are employees of temporary agencies, working in call centers that are full of nothing but temp workers. They are required to take 3-4 chats at a time. When you answer one of the surveys after a chat, email, or phone call, anything less than 4, out of a scale from 1-5, can get the agent fired. If you state that you hate Apple policy and give a “Meets Expectations” or lower on any section of the survey, it is counted against the employee. Apple does not care if you place in the notes that you loved the agent but are unhappy with Apple’s policies. They are so concerned with their JD Powers standing that they don’t give a crap about all the temporary workers they have through Volt and Kelly Services, and other agencies!
ARE YOU MAD? IF NOT “ WHY NOT? THE PARASITIC WORM AT APPLE’S CORE
Did you know this about Apple?
Apple profit beats expectations | Reuters
Apr 23, 2009 … SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – Apple’s quarterly profit soared past Wall Street expectations on strong sales of iPhones and iPods, …
uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE53M17X20090423
How Apple profits from the App Store – Apple 2.0 – Fortune …
May 14, 2009 … With the passing of the 1 billion download milestone, several efforts have been made to estimate what that means in dollar terms for Apple …
brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/…/how-apple-profits-from-the-app- store/ -
Apple profits leap on back of iPhone – Telegraph
Jul 21, 2009 … Technology giant Apple bucked the consumer trend by delivering a forecast- beating profit of $1.23bn (£747m) in the three months to the end …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/Apple-profits-leap-on-back-of-iPhone.html – Similar –
And how about this:
iPhone Accounting Change Could Send Apple Profits And Stock To Moon (AAPL)Henry Blodget|Sep. 12, 2009, 8:08 AM |http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-new-apple-iphone-accounting-change-could-send-profits-and-stock-to-moon-2009-9
BUT EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE IS THIS…THE PRICE RIGHT NOW FOR ONE SHARE OF APPLE STOCK IS $190.56. THIS IS AT THE SAME TIME CONTRACTED EMPLOYEES OF VOLT THAT HAVE FLEXED THEIR MUSCLES TO HELP MAKE THIS HAPPEN FOR APPLE, NOT ONLY AREN’T GOING TO SEE A PAYCHECK FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT WEEK, EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN GETTING A PAYCHECK, THE AVERAGE WEEKLY PAY THEY SEE IS RIGHT AROUND THE PRICE OF ONE MEASELY SHARE OF APPLE’S COVETED STOCK! THAT’S RIGHT, FOR BETWEEN 11 AND 13 DOLLARS AN HOUR, VOLT CONTRACTORS HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR CLOSE TO A YEAR NOW AT THE ADDISON SITE, TO BE TOLD TO WORK OVERTIME UP TO 72 HOURS A WEEK OR DOWN TO 20 HOURS A WEEK WITH ALL THE CARE AND WARMTH OF JUST ANOTHER CORPORATE GIANT FEEDING ON THE HEARTS BLOOD OF PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO PUT FOOD ON THEIR TABLES FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.
IF YOU AREN’T MAD YOU AREN’T CONSCIENCE IS A BUMPER STICKER THAT SCREAMS RIGHT NOW OF THE MIND NUMBING CORPORATE GREED THAT HAS ALLOWED APPLE TO OPEN UP A CALL CENTER IN BANGALORE TO TAKE JOBS AWAY FROM U.S. CITIZENS TO SAVE APPLE A FEW MEASELY DOLLARS FROM THEIR ‘TO THE MOON’ PROFITS. IT WILL CAUSE CLOSE TO 200 PEOPLE TO BE ON THE SEARCH FOR WORK, WHILE WAITING TO HEAR WHETHER APPLE WILL THROW A FEW HOURS THEIR WAY. ALL THE WHILE, TOSSING MONEY INTO A CALL CENTER IN CANADA, BECAUSE APPLE DOESN’T WANT TO PAY TAXES THAT WOULD ENSUE FROM THIS, THE CANADIAN CENTER WILL NOT HANDLE SOME ISSUES THAT APPLE NEEDS ADDRESSED BY THE BANGALORE, INDIA SITE.
MEANWHILE, APPLE CONTRIBUTES TO THE DECLINE OF THE US ECONOMY AND SPIRIT OF AMERICAN WORKERS BY CAVALIERLY MARCHING ALONG THE PATH TO OBCENE WEALTH “ TREADING OVER THE VERY PEOPLE THAT HAVE HELPED THEIR SALES AND CUSTOMER SERVICE BE SO SPECTACULAR.
WHERE IS OUR COURAGE TO CHANGE? WHERE IS OUR FIGHT? WHAT MADE THE U.S. ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE FLOCKED TO…SEND US YOUR POOR, YOUR DOWNTRODDEN… IS BEING DESTROYED BY THE RICH WHO ONLY CARE ABOUT GETTING RICHER.
Even in these economically challenging times, we are incredibly pleased to report our best quarterly revenue and earnings in Apple history–surpassing $10 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO.
STEVE MIGHT BE PLEASED, BUT TELL THAT TO AGENTS IN ADDISON WHO GOT SERVED EVICTION NOTICES AND HAVE LOST THEIR INADEQUATE AND INCONSISTENT INCOME WHILE APPLE CONTINUES TO HORDE IT’S PROFITS. FOR WHAT? BECAUSE IF THESE CORPORATE BLOODSUCKING GIANTS CONTINUE ON THEIR MERCILESS QUEST FOR THE ALMIGHTY BEST QUARTERLY REVENUE REPORTS, THEY WILL FIND THEMSELVES ONE DAY OUT PROFITING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS AND SHOP THE ITUNES STORE WON’T BE ABLE TO SPEND 1.39 FOR A SONG, MUCH LESS $400 FOR A PHONE.
STOP THIS BLOODBATH. STOP THIS ABOMINATION. SAY NO TO CORPORATE GREED AND THE RUINATION OF MIDDLE AND LOWER CLASS WORKERS. DON’T LET APPLE GET AWAY WITH THIS.
PSST. PLEASE SEEK SUPPORT TODAY IS A CAMPAIGN THAT WILL HELP KEEP WORKERS IN ADDISON RECEIVING THEIR 11 TO 13 DOLLAR HOURLY PAY. ON WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 21ST, STARTING AT 5PM START EMAILING APPLE AT Email Us TO REQUEST ASSISTANCE ON YOUR IPOD, ITOUCH, SHUFFLE, NANO, AND OTHER APPLE MEDIA DEVICE. ASK FOR HELP SETTING UP AN ACCOUNT. ASK FOR HELP CREATING AN ‘ALLOWANCE’. ASK FOR HELP DOWNLOADING FREE PODCASTS. ASK FOR HELP AND HELP WHILE YOU ASK. MAKE THE EMAIL BOXES OF APPLES CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTERS SO FULL, OUT OF DESPERATION APPLE WILL HAVE TO CALL BACK THE NOW UNEMPLOYED AMERICAN WORKERS AT THE ADDISON SITE. HELP THEM STAY WORKING. HELP THEM FEED THEIR FAMILIES. AND LET APPLE KNOW THAT YOU CARE EVEN IF THEY DON’T.
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/contact.html?form=store_features&topic=Other%20iTunes%20Store%20Features&subtopic=Podcasts
Jim, if you’re reading this, get teh folks at consumerist to post this story. It will get greater exposure.
http://www.consumerist.com
Jack…. you make me laugh…
You are not owed a job by anyone.
1st, you bitch about being paid low wages by Volt (it’s not apple who pays you. apple would simply have a contract with volt. Volt can pass whatever amount they want to their employees)
Then you complain that those low paying jobs are being sent someplace else.
Your ancestors…. the ones who built the USA….. were happy to simply have a job.
Unfortunately their offspring seem to feel, they deserve a different “deal”…. Especially a different “deal” than those who live in other countries.
North Americans are stupid enough to pay too much for houses, too much for vehicles, to much for computers, iphones etc…. then we bitch about not being able to afford those things when times get tough…. LOL
It will all balance out eventually… prices will drop, to match the lower income levels that will be common in the west. In the meantime we will learn some humbling lessons.
Think you have it bad ? Try visiting other countries….. then you won’t bitch.
To the person who posted the reference to the terms and conditions when creating an account (not just on this website but also on the Apple Forum website pretty much verbatim): These conditions were not in play when I created my apple account. There was not a single mention of apps and games in my terms and conditions.
Also, I checked the cards prior to purchasing them to see if they could be used for apps. The card said “Get the latest music, movies, TV Shows and more” on the front and there was no mention of any exclusions from the iTunes store on the back. It did, however, say I couldn’t refund the card … they did make sure to mention that.
Given the circumstances, I think everyone would agree that the implication was that the card could be used for apps and games and that the average person would have no way of knowing that this was not the case. I think that Apple should think REALLY, REALLY hard about making this right.
I just have to say today I lost my job @ volt/apple Addison TX.
Our site was one of the top rated sites in customer satisfaction.
I was there on contract for 6 months and they extended it to 8.
They stated apple was going to conduct interviews for Home based Agent Jobs.
I applied as well as many others those that did not apply were let go.
So today came the day when Apple was to decide who would have jobs and who would not. Turns out I as well as many excellent agents and managers lost there jobs today. Many people they chose were not the best agents. I think a lot of people were upset to se Many Excellent agents go and were upset many agents who were not so good went on as HBA I even know one guy on my team who got the position but is not able to do the job because where he lives the internet is too slow. Very frustrating when you put your heart into a job and produce excellent results then get kicked to the curb. I do not deserve a job but for the record I was one of there best agents and my supervisors and leads knew it. But then again most of them also lost there jobs. Very depressing day today.
Oh and another point Apple also lost a lot of sales as if I did get the position there would have been a number of purchases. But so long Apple… and good luck getting Agents like the ones you kicked to the curb for your next product release now that they closed the Addison Call Center
I am looking around to see if anyone is filing a class action suit on this issue. I will let you know if I find one.
I have found a workaround – not that I like it, but whatever it takes to buy my apps without using my credit card.
Create a US iTunes account using a US address (just pick a city somewhere – search the internet or some 411 site for a fake address and zip code) and a US gift card that you can order from a couple of places online: http://itunes-giftcards.com/Home.html and http://www.aionwowbuy.com/
You CAN switch stores if you switch accounts.
I did the same thing as everyone else – bought $50 gift cards from Costco for Christmas presents last year, and the extras for myself for apps for my (then) new iPhone. I rarely buy music from the iTunes store – I like to purchase hard copies of my music. I want to be able to re-rip if something bad happens – and as a 15 year Mac tech – bad stuff happens – even with backups!!
We Canadians aren’t vocal or angry enough to file a class-action lawsuit – unless it’s about a car¦
I WOULD FIGHT FOR THIS. lets band together and fight this tyrany
This is a very good issue to act on, its basically discrimination about the area of the world we live in, Because our taxes are different we are not permitted to spend money on (for some of us) the Primary point of buying these cards in the first place. Just spent most of the remainder of my paycheck on a card to give my iPod that little finishing touch, realizing that i no longer can, i appreciate the information on Apple’s Douchebaggery, Thank you.
Jim Whitelaw — If you read this keep up the fight and id definately help the cause in this case. any updates on this would be great.
I have searched so many stores and couldnt find a good store outside USA to deliver on time with giftcards.. i still find a good one after so many attempts..
Wow.. Its amazing
i bought my itunes gift card from http://itunesgiftscards.com and got my gift card after 2 hours,this store deliver fast and they are legit
[...] problem. Wasn’t getting resolved and I do have better things to do beside talk to folks in Canada about my mail problem. Asked Jobs if he could have someone knowledgeable call me to help me out. [...]
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Did everybody now when the update ios 4.3 for iphone4 comes?
There have been some rumors going about that Apple has pulled AirPrint from the final release of iOS 4.2. Apparently, a rumor came about yesterday claiming that Apple has axed the feature from the iOS 4.2 final release because of some unforeseen circumstances. Distraught by the speculated exemption of the features, a customer decided to shoot Steve Jobs a letter about it to get a further understanding of the matter. Steve replied saying that AirPrint has not been cut from the final version of the anticipated software update.
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This is absolutely ridiculous as it appears that Apple is forbidden its own cards in Canada which doesn’t make sense at all further more there is such a law really existing I am more than sure that the company will take it in consideration. So I do believe that this is more like marketing.
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